CANDO 2026 Laguna Beach City Council Candidate Forum

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1. 0:00recording back on [clears throat] and feel really proud of myself that I'm remembering to do these things. Okay. Okay. Very, very good. Okay. Well, um, so, okay. Wait, I have to get rid of that. Okay. Sorry. The YouTube was going to
2. 0:24start live above me. Um, which it is still going live. I'm just not watching it on my screen because you can picture there's like a few second time lag. So, yeah. Okay. Very good. Okay. Well, good evening to all of our community members and to the candidates and thank
3. 0:43you very much for coming. Um, as I think probably you know, my name is Penelopey Mil and I'm the president of CANDO which is the Canyon Alliance of Neighborhoods Defense Organization. Um, so and a can do advocates for our truly unique neighborhoods and also the wild
4. 1:00environment that cradles them. So the virtual background behind me is a William Wendt painting of Laguna Canyon from about a 100 years ago. Uh, the canyon was lovely and beloved then and it is now. So I'm going to be your moderator. I'm going to quickly go over
5. 1:16a few things. So um audience members um you do not have uh audio or video access in this format. Um but kind of like being an audience at another forum while you're not talking um you can you can you know show a response so that for example you can go to react and you know
6. 1:33do an applause or a heart or whatever. So, um let's see. Uh because we're such a large group of of candidates running this time, which yay for democracy, um we won't be doing opening or closing statements. Um so hopefully your philosophy, goals, level of knowledge,
7. 1:52problem solving skills, and so on uh will be reflected in your answers to our questions. Um so you're going to have 1 minute 30 seconds per question. If necessary, uh, the moderator may ask a follow-up. Um, a follow-up typically would be, um, so I'm hoping I don't have
8. 2:12to because usually I would ask a follow-up if you said something really vague. Um, so, you know, I think we all agree public safety, yay. Unique town, yay. So, if your answer doesn't contain any
9. 2:30substance, I might ask you I might ask you a follow-up question. Um, if your answer contains something that I think is that that is factually incorrect as far as concurrently be determined, um, I might ask a followup on that, too. But I am very hopeful that I do not need to
10. 2:44and that you will all have um, accurate, thoughtful, detailed answers to the degree possible in an accelerated, you know, one and a half minute format. So, um you will, um yeah. So, when the timer is going, I'm going to start it now just so you can see. You should be able to
11. 3:02see two things. Okay. One, the timer will start um beside me in Sorry. Come on. Okay, there we go. So, you should be able to see that running right beside me. You should also see if you look at the top of your screen that it's running there, too.
12. 3:23Right. So, if you look at the top right of your screen um on that little sort of band that says along at Laguna Beach City Council candidate forum and this says things like um has a little has a little pen for note takingaking has a little box where you can change your
13. 3:38view. It also has the clock but you can all see the timer beside me, right? Yes. Okay, good. Um so, uh please do watch the time because of the number of candidates and our desire to be fair. Um it would not um it's not going to be
14. 3:54fair for me to let one candidate take two minutes and then have the next take one minute take a minute and a half. So I um I I do I would really much rather that you gracefully stopped yourself then than that I wind up stopping you, you know, because that would just be
15. 4:10awkward but important. Okay, so um let's see. We're going to rotate the speaking order of candidates. So, you're going to speak in alphabetical order by your first name, but because we don't want one person to be always first or somebody to be always last, um each time
16. 4:24whoever was first will go to last, right? So, you know, um uh you will not be surprised to hear that Alex will be the first speaker for the first question and then Ashley will be the first speaker for the second question and so on, right? Um I will tell you that. So,
17. 4:39I don't expect that you write a quickly write an alphabetical list and then memorize your place. So, I'll tell you who is going to speak. Okay? So, um, again, welcome. We look find forward to finding out a lot more about [laughter and clears throat]
18. 4:51about you and your positions, especially on the canyon. So, um, with that said, let me reset. Okay. Um, and we are going to do our first question. So, um, and again, a minute and a half. Um, and we're going
19. 5:09to start with Alex. And so, our first question is this. If you received a $10 million grant to use for the city any way you wanted, what would you do with it and why? [clears throat] Well, first of all, thank you, Penny, and thank you to CANDO for hosting this
20. 5:27forum. I've really appreciated the the work that you guys have done and the collaboration that we've had on many issues, including when I was elected, I really enjoyed the the tour of the different neighborhoods in the canyon. That's a very um I like that question
21. 5:40because really when we talk about our priorities, it all comes down to the budget and one of the things that I've prioritized is our budgeting process and ensuring that every dollar is spent to the highest and best use. I would spend, if I had to pick one project, I would
22. 5:55spend it on fire safety because I think the question is not if, but when the next wildfire happens. We've seen the success of being able to leverage city dollars with our neighborhood undergrounding districts. So, I would look at that. I would also look at
23. 6:10undergrounding Laguna Canyon Road. I think one of the issues that we're dealing with now is Edison and there and Caltrans um the conflict there where Caltrans won't go under the rightway. So, I would probably put the $10 million towards that project which will enable us to
24. 6:25leverage the tug dollars. Um the goal would be not to have to have the city take over Laguna Canyon Road because the liabilities associated with that are too much. That's why the city council rejected the previous agreement. But I really feel that it's a critical
25. 6:41evacuation road for the city. It's, you know, we have three ways in and out. That's one of them. And the the fire risk that we face, especially in that area, is so significant that I think it's important. Thank you, Alex. And thank you for
26. 6:54finishing at 1 minute 30. Very, very excellent. So, um, Ashley, $10 million grants to use the city any way you want. What would you do with it? Yeah. Um, for a 10 million grant, I mean, I definitely um agree with Alex that I would want to use that for fire
27. 7:15safety. I 100% agree that it's not if, it's when. Um, and I think that there's a lot more work we can do. I I believe in undergrounding definitely. um not taking over the entire um canyon road. I would like us to utilize the money to stress test. We have implemented a lot
28. 7:35of um independent action items which are great and we stress test a few of them, but it would be really great to utilize the funding to do a full test of everything put together to make sure that all things when firing off on all cylinders work. um that all
29. 7:54communication works um that people are able to get out um that we're we have enough uh enough communication um and ahead of time knowledge of what's going to happen and go on and that's what I like million dollar grant is to stress test the entire system for wildfire.
30. 8:13Thank you. So um let's see and next is Edward $10 million grant um for the city. What do you use it for? I would uh thank you very much for this evening for hosting this event. I would spend some of the money uh regarding our
31. 8:32core hotel in Laguna Beach that has been sitting empty, not used properly, the Laguna Beach Laguna Hotel. Uh, I would start painting exterior, lighting up the exterior at night so that it looks better for the city. The the city would feel better. Um, so
32. 8:56that would probably cost probably 800,000 or a million. Then I would spend money looking at the we've had too many uh sewage dumps into our ocean. Uh, unnecessary. I believe there's uh infrastructure work that needs to be done there and it could be millions of
33. 9:16dollars. It could be five million. Uh there should be a budget designed to fix that. Uh I believe right now technology is changing so fast that our fire our firefighters are about to get new tools for their toolbox to fight forest fires. I know this because I've spent a good
34. 9:39part of since 2011, I have a communications company that does emergency communications and through that I did a beta test in Hawaii uh back in 2015 16 and I've been uh connected with these new technologies that are about to come into play in the next few
35. 10:01years. So, I believe the $10 million should be spent on the uh making the city operate better, sewage, uh electrical infrastructure. There's been some issues that some of the residents are probably not aware of uh of electrical lines that
36. 10:21needed to be replaced, transformers, etc., etc. So, am I time up? Sorry, did I did I lose you? Hello. Um, I screwed up the timer. My apologies
37. 10:44for that. Um, so, um, I had to reset it as some of you may have noticed. So, um, but yes, that your time was up and I will do better on this one. So, you did get it a few seconds for that. So, um, Joy is next. $10 million grant. What do we do with it? Um third first uh Penny
38. 11:02thank you and thank can do association because I think all of these forums are really helpful for the community. So um and your dedication to the canyon it's really important. Um you know with a hund00 million budget 10 million unfortunately doesn't go very
39. 11:20far. So, being a fiscal conservative that I am and wanting to protect our finances, I probably would set aside that 10 million for an emergency fund, um, I think somebody just said, I think Ed just talked about the sewage spill or if we happen to have an emergency,
40. 11:38um, god forbid a wildfire, we need those funds, those reserve funds to help with such things. as I run my own business and having been um a strong finance background, uh you don't usually spend every cent and then more what you make. And since this city is now running into
41. 11:58a deficit and projected deficit, I probably would take the 10 million and do just that is have a set aside fund for emergencies. I um I know there's plenty of projects we could uh spend it on, but having that uh that emergency fund is critical, especially when we're
42. 12:18so dependent upon tourism, having a a long background in hospitality and tourism. I can tell you it's a very cyclical market to be dependent upon uh transient occupancy tax and retail tax because you just never know when another pandemic or something might come along
43. 12:35and we need those funds set aside. So, thank you. Okay. So, um so um but I do think the city does I think h have an emergency funding for exactly those those reasons, but more in it would always be good. So, um Karen is
44. 12:53next. So, um Karen, if you received a $10 million grant to use for the city anyway you wanted, what would you do with it and u um and why? Hi. Hi, Penny. Hi, everyone. Um thanks for holding this forum. Um actually, I would immediately use a portion of that
45. 13:15money to do a capacity study. Um, and I believe what that capacity study needs to look at is the capacity of the beaches, the capacity of the roads, the capacity of the parking, and uh the capacity of the evacuation routes. Um, I I know that the 6 million number has
46. 13:40been used as 6 million visitors per year. I did not find a methodology behind that number and I really think we do need a true number. Um I believe there would be money left over and as I said in my um candidate statement um I also believe that there needs to be a
47. 14:01rainy day fund. However, um if we were told that we needed to spend it, I would uh take that capacity study and I would immediately work on creating a map between and among our existing general plan, zoning code, LCP, and specific plans and identify the inconsistencies
48. 14:32and create a budget to map especially the canyon areas that in a I mean we always talk about fire but I think we also need to talk about earthquake. Thank you very much Karen. Um [clears throat] okay so sec.
49. 14:50Okay so um next is Laura. Hi Penny. Thank you for holding this forum. You know, my answer is very similar to the other folks. I would use $10 million in the in the best way that I possibly could. I'd first look for ways to expand it, see if there's any
50. 15:12matching uh funds available at the um uh at in other places. But I love the idea of undergrounding the bumps. um making sure that reserves are topped off if that needs to be done. And I would also add there are a few areas in town where there's there are single
51. 15:33poles where you can clear up evacuation routes and um free free up and maybe speed up the evacuation process. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you so much. Okay. So, um and then Mark, $10 million grant use any way you want. What would you do with
52. 15:54it and why? Well, I would go back to the uh last uh budget process that we had just finished and uh see if any of the items that were on that uh list could be expedited, keeping in mind that we always keep uh safety as a priority, right? So there
53. 16:11might be that that money could be spread amongst the various uh items that were included in that budget and just seeing if we could move some of them forward. And yes, Penny, you are correct. We do have a reserve fund. And the city is also, as you know, already committed uh
54. 16:28in January to the update of the local coastal plan and our general plan along with the comprehensive code update and all of those things tied with our stewardship plan that is actually providing us a framework and you've heard me talk probably many times about
55. 16:43my conversations with partnering with Coastal Commission regarding um what was mentioned earlier, a a capacity study, evacuation routes uh is all a part of that. So, um, most of that stuff is baked into to where we're headed at this time that I think that we're going to
56. 17:00see some, uh, some interesting good news on the horizon as far as some funds being made available for some additional undergrounding in the open space. So, I look forward to that. As you know, we've already also um been looking into some of our open space acquisition and uh,
57. 17:19we're we're looking at some opportunities on that currently. So that's that's what I would do. Thank you. Okay. Thank you everybody for being so good about your time. Um and let's see. So next is Nick. Um $10 million grant
58. 17:38anyway you want. What do you do with it and why? Uh that's a great question. Uh first I'm assuming the terms. It's not a use it or lose it. So if uh we're a you know we have to spend all of it. Um, obviously I would focus primarily on our budget
59. 17:53right now to make sure that going into the next fiscal year, we're not having issues of having to make cuts to any current uh um programs that this that the the residents are able to use. You know, the last thing we want to do is to pull back on a lot of these uh um
60. 18:11projects that we have. Um, but you know, given the canyon and our hillsides, uh, we need to be preparing for the next major storm and the next m like Alex said and and Ashley and a few others when it's not if, but when and coming into this El Nino, we need to make sure
61. 18:27that we're ready for um for our emergency uh preparedness. And so if that's in the canyon, if that's for, you know, our creeks, making sure our storm drains are uh properly invested in, they're all in great shape. uh whether it's the hillsides with our emergency
62. 18:43warning systems, all that needs to be uh as Ashley said, stress tested and ready to go. But at the same time, we don't want to be putting any of that money towards new recurring expenses. Um you know, we've seen with Aliso Creek parking lot has been somewhat destroyed.
63. 19:00So, as we're dealing with climate change and the changes in our coastline, we're going to need to make sure that we have money set aside so we can make those appropriate uh repairs so we're not losing, let's say, parking funds, uh parking money because we have to close
64. 19:14that parking lot. I think you're muted. Um and then Sue, you got you got a lot of plates spinning there, Penny. Yeah, thank thank you um thanks for hosting. So I think you know we have a
65. 19:34disaster reserve fund and we also have a 20% reserve on our general fund. So I think in terms of reserves we're in pretty good shape. State law requires like 10. So we've doubled that. But my biggest concern is we have a significant fire here. We spent about $30 million in
66. 19:49fire mitigation strategies and equipment and various um other methods to you know keep us in good standing but you know there's always more to go and you if you have a significant fire in town it's a it'll be in the billions. So you know $10 million is not going to get you much
67. 20:08of anything. So I would put it in definitely I would put it in fire safety technologies. I would use the money in our we have our facilities master plan which calls for us upgrading our fire stations which we need to do. We're going obviously we're building a new one
68. 20:23in South Laguna but we need to upgrade those. So I put money into that. Um it's very obvious that we need to underground Laguna Canyon Road but there are a lot of complexities which I don't know Penny you may bring this this topic up later I don't know but $10 million won't get us
69. 20:37very far there because Edison's going to give us 75 million to do that. So that's just let you know in general what the scope of the magnitude of the expenditures would be. Um anyway, so that's my those are my that's my opinion. I'm not as worried about the
70. 20:51reserves because I'm not as worried about as our budget because I think we we can we can we're going to be able to handle that. But I am more worried about having a significant fire because we have had a number of them here already and we've been lucky so far and
71. 21:02prepared. Thank you. Okay. So um so thank you very much everybody and I I I really appreciate that that um everybody gave um you know your answers were not identical. There was some substance and you finished pretty much on time. So um
72. 21:20well done. Um so yeah I I just I think that makes the forum better for all of us. So I really appreciate that. So, um you will not be surprised to hear that Ashley is going to be first on uh this next question. So, um our next question is,
73. 21:40um let me just do this. Well, probably it doesn't matter. Sorry, I was going to share an exhibit, but I won't on this one. Um, so where specifically do you think affordable housing should be constructed in Laguna Beach and what actions would you take as a council
74. 21:56person to try to make that happen? Yeah, I think um, look, affordable housing is not only state mandate, but it's something that we definitely should do um, as a community and as a city. And I think that for affordable housing, it really needs to be
75. 22:17I can't tell you a specific place because it needs to be evaluated not just on an area, but what does that look like from a traffic perspective, an evacuation perspective, the long-term liabilities and the cost, um how many units, and what does the um who's the
76. 22:35housing going to be for? And so I I know that there's, you know, a lot of open space in the canyon, but before making any decision on where something where it should go, I would want to make sure that all of those um all of those are considered first before making that.
77. 22:55Thank you very much for your answer. Okay. So, um, next, Edward, where would affordable housing go and what would you do to make that happen? [clears throat] Edward, you're muted. I'll start your time over. Edward, you're muted. We can't hear you.
78. 23:38Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? Yep. Sorry. Sorry. Um, yeah. I think uh we had a uh presentation a couple days ago and Sue spoke to this point. There are places
79. 23:51downtown right now that could be converted to uh apartments. Um so there are places scattered around downtown, scattered around the city that could be potentially converted to housing apartments. I also believe that the opportunity exists with the uh hospital
80. 24:14not really wanting to play ball with us and it's a real estate real estate play. They want to shut it down. I believe we should look for a partner to possibly do imminent domain purchase of that property. keep upgrade the hospital, downsize the
81. 24:35size of the hospital, and possibly put affordable housing on that large acre site. I believe it's 20 acres or it's large. So, it can accommodate uh h affordable housing there and still have the ER, still have the hospital, but just downsize it. So, I think the city
82. 24:57should step to the plate, get a financial partner and uh take because obviously Providence doesn't want to be there anymore. They're building another hospital uh tower. They want the money. It's a real estate play. They made it very
83. 25:14clear in the last year. Thank you. Okay. So, thank you for that, Joy. Um, where do you think affordable housing should be constructed and what actions if you were on council would you take to make that happen?
84. 25:34Where in Laguna I mean where in Laguna can affordable housing it not be an oxymoron? I mean the cost and the land prices in Laguna are so extreme. So um I guess I'd have to say if I was on council, what is the goal? Is the goal to satisfy the reena numbers or is the
85. 25:50goal just to get more more affordable housing? And so um it depends upon what what what the priorities would be. Um I think we have to look at on a case-byase basis for each piece of land. Having been a development person almost my life, I mean you have to look at what
86. 26:08are the soils, what's the surrounding, what's the general plan. Do you are you adhering to the rules and the environmental um parameters? Because I don't want to see just get more. I don't think that's the the best approach. Um, I also have been looking at other
87. 26:25tourist towns are looking at um a VA vacancy tax or vacancy incentives. Um, it's my understanding that quite a few of our homes are just vacant as second, third, or um, investment homes. And so what what a lot of these other tourist places are doing is trying to either
88. 26:44incentivize people to rent their homes out for long-term rentals or they're imposing a vacancy tax which would help then spawn more money for um affordable housing. But I I think we need to look at every single project individually and look at the environmental constraints.
89. 27:03And we talked a lot about wildfire. We have to look at access. We have to look at evacuation. We have to look at and take sequin into account and not ignore our beautiful environmental rules. Thank you. Okay. So, um Karen,
90. 27:25affordable housing, um how would you make that happen and where? So, I was on the affordable housing task force prior to being on the affordable housing um uh the housing and human services committee. The affordable
91. 27:39housing task force looked um deeply into spaces that would work for um providing tr truly providing affordable housing and um they were they were spread out throughout the city. Um there were properties in the downtown area, the parking lots in the downtown area. There
92. 28:07were uh places in church parking lots, not taking down the churches, but there were places like in North Laguna, we looked at the uh pavilion shopping center in the back there. Um but we only took a cursory look and I think Joyy's point is really well taken. The due
93. 28:28diligence upfront is very important and that starts with looking at a title report and understanding the incumbrances and the encroachments on those properties. It also looks at a you need to look at a hazard report um and understand what natural hazards could be
94. 28:49there. Um that's how I would start. Right now we have a housing element that identifies a few sites. I I I think we could do better than what we have in the housing element. Thank you. And um Laura,
95. 29:08ah thank you. Well, I you know there have been some wonderful answers uh before me and I would do much in the same a thoughtful analysis. I would look at the information that has and the data that has already been gathered, compare it to other coastal cities, and see what
96. 29:29other people are doing in terms of creative ways to um meet the needs of affordable housing, especially in a very expensive coastal city. Um, I uh I like the idea of having the housing spread in air spread throughout the city in areas that are more conducive uh by way of um
97. 29:59public transportation and um to get to work. So that perhaps the affordable housing could also help with the labor stock for some of our businesses and perhaps help the the downtown making the um uh making the transition to more affordable housing uh
98. 30:20hopefully more palatable to surrounding community members. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Sorry, but the timer is sometimes slow to take my click, so I stop it and start it
99. 30:40accidentally. So, Mark, where shouldable housing go and what actions would you take to make that happen? Uh, first of all, I think just keeping up with the arena numbers is challenging enough. That's 390 some odd units. I do believe that it should be uh woven
100. 30:58throughout town. I do think that there are some larger opportunities. For instance, in the art district, uh, in the downtown specific plan, which is already actually, uh, would take some very modest language changes in that specific plan, uh, to allow, uh,
101. 31:14residential instead of just limited to artist housing. Uh, and I think that there are some other areas that could uh, uh, accept a little bit more density. uh the housing uh the current affordable housing units down by Lane Park. I think
102. 31:31that there's some additional units that could could go down in that area as well. So I I I you know I think that we're we don't have a lot of leverage. We don't have a lot of control with these new housing accountability. So I think really it's uh working hard in
103. 31:47communicating and well similarly uh what happened with the NCC uh you know they had some extra space there in the church. Originally, it was too high. Uh we worked hard with that developer to bring that building down and make it more compatible with the neighborhood. I
104. 32:02brought Annne Kristoff and Kathy Jük together with the NCC to uh find a way we can salvage those uh and save those existing buildings and still allow for 28 units. So, I think it's just going to take a variety of different efforts. Thank you.
105. 32:23Okay. Um, so, uh, Nick, where should affordable housing be constructed in town and what actions would you take to make that happen? It's a great question. I think, um, like some of the other speakers have said, you know, I think the wrong approach
106. 32:38would be to just toss it all in the canyon and, oh, we'll let them handle it. Like, that's not I believe that's not the right approach at all. Uh, I agree with some of the other candidates have said it needs to be spread across town, but it's also not saying the
107. 32:51state's not saying we have to build it. we obviously have to plan for it and so we need to continue to make sure we identify underutilized commercial properties first. Um I'm against just developing our open space. We want to avoid that as well. But um as the mayor
108. 33:06said, we have to have conversations across all of the all of uh all of Laguna and I think that's the best way to mitigate the feeling of overdevelopment in a specific area. We want to avoid having these issues of half a parking space, things that are
109. 33:20unreasonable. And uh as noted, uh the arts district could be uh a specific place to begin, but like I said, overall, it shouldn't all be in the canyon. It needs to be throughout Laguna. And um again, it's just preparing for it, not necessarily
110. 33:35forcing to build it. Thank you very much. So, um, and actually you have enough time to respond to my follow-up question kind of almost within your time, and that is, I'm pleased to hear you say that not all of it should go in the canyon, but that
111. 33:48seems in contrast to what you say on your website solutions page, where in the introductory paragraph, you in fact say our regional solution should be met in the canyon. Yeah. No, that's a great follow-up question. When I say the canyon, I think
112. 34:00it's the same as what other people other like the mayor, Alex have said before, too, where when we say the canyon, we say the arts district, which is at the beginning portion of the canyon, putting it way back out in the rural area. Like I had an opportunity today to walk
113. 34:13through the Sun Valley area, and that's a beautiful rural road, and we want to keep our canyon a rural a rural area just like kind of like our road to Hana. Thank you very much. Okay. So, um, and then Sue, where and what actions would you take?
114. 34:34Well, you know, I think the HCD is not very they're not very forgiving. So, we do have to hit our, you know, we have to hit our housing planning numbers by 2028. But I think the most expedient way to accommodate housing is to use our built environment. So, what I mean by
115. 34:49that, and we'd allow this in the downtown specific plan, um the recent update, but we could have housing on a lot of these second story uh second story buildings and where their office buildings, they can be easily converted and that that is very helpful for us
116. 35:04because it doesn't really change the character of the town much and it doesn't require a lot of building. Um there's, you know, opportunities for this all over town. Um so, I think we should leverage that. Um I'm not a huge fan of um SB4 projects. You know, Mark
117. 35:20alluded to this with the NCC project, which was is difficult for the community to deal with. Um because SP4 allows you to do a lot of things. And we we were really smart and we got to a place where we could build those NCC units without disrupting the neighborhood without um
118. 35:36kind of destroying the character of the neighborhood because we could have had a really significant and poor situation there to deal with where a builder could come in and build a five-story building if they wanted to and we could have affordable housing there. We couldn't do
119. 35:48much about that. So, um you know, I'm optimistic that we can meet the numbers. We're going to have to mainly do it through zoning. Um, and that doesn't mean they're all going to get built or changed overnight, but I think if we zone properly and just do it
120. 36:01thoughtfully, um, I think we can come up with some good ideas. Thank you. And Alex, yeah, I think I think this is a really important question because really at the council level, our job is to ensure that
121. 36:14we have a compliant housing element. Right now, our six cycle housing element is compliant with state law. That's important because without being in compliance, that means that the whole city is subject to builder's remedy. and the state of California and the attorney
122. 36:26general's office have made it clear that they are not playing games when it comes to builder's remedies. So, if we want to protect our open space and the charm of what makes Laguna Beach unique, it's critical that we remain in compliance and start thinking about our seventh
123. 36:37cycle numbers which SCAg is in the process of developing. Um, in terms of my approach for this, I um over the past four years, one of the things that I'm proud of that we were able to do actually starting from the task force that Karen was a part of, they
124. 36:50recommended looking at the second story on Coast Highway in the commercial zone. right now or prior to the changes that I worked on it allowed office space to be um 100% of the area but housing could only be 50%. We were able to work really closely with the coastal commission in
125. 37:04record time [clears throat] to get that approved. So now you can do housing on the second story in the commercial zones. I think that's that's where we can continue focusing. I agree about the comments about the arts district changing the language instead of just
126. 37:15making it artist housing in the arts district allowing residential housing which would have an affordable component due to our inclusionary ordinance. And then finally, I think the most the cheapest, most cost-effective, but also the most moral approach is dealing with
127. 37:27Vista Lisa. Right now, we have 71 affordable, very lowincome uh seniors who are living there. The covenants expire in 2041. So, I've been working with the school district on how we can extend that. That would allow us to ensure that those seniors are not
128. 37:41displaced, but also we can get credit for Arena by extending the affordability. Thank you. Okay, so um thank you very much for that folks. Well, again that was um not just the same answer. I mean for some overlap
129. 37:56but it's nice that you are thinking about this. Okay. So um on this next question um [clears throat] sorry I'm just thinking that whether our our audience knows what builder's remedy is. So, I think I'm just going to pause
130. 38:12just for a sec to say I imagine that you all do, but um builder's remedy is essentially um if we have a non-compliant housing element like it that it either doesn't get certified by HCD, ours has been certified, but you need to do
131. 38:28yearly progress reports and it can get um [clears throat] so uh they can descertify it. a community without a certified housing element is subject to um a builder being able to build without any limitations essentially. So um you know no design
132. 38:49review, no height limits, no density limits. So that's what builder's remedy is. So again, we may not love what HCD tells us to do, but currently not following their rules puts us in a lot worse shape, at least as far as we
133. 39:08can tell. Anyway, that was just a quicky explanation for what is builder's remedy for um uh attendees who who may or may not have known. So, okay. So, um we are on to question three. Um and um so question three, Edward is going to answer first and um our the question is
134. 39:28please describe what you know about Laguna Canyon Creek and about critical Laguna Canyon wildlife corridors. What role do you suggest the city play if any in protecting them? And so I'm just going to quickly do a share screen because I think this might be
135. 39:46interesting to everybody even though I also recognize that it may prejudice your answers a little bit but um okay so you should be able to see this screen now. So and I don't know how well you can see this but this is from um uh the state fish and wildlife. Okay.
136. 40:06So here's Laguna Beach. You can see in here, here's Laguna Canyon Road and you can see this is where the critical wildlife corridor is and the critical wildlife corridor here at Big Bendd connecting Aliso and Wood Canyons Wilderness Park and Laguna Coast
137. 40:22Wilderness Park. They give the most possible rank calling it irreplaceable and essential. So, we'll stop sharing. We'll go back to candidates. So, what do you know about Laguna Canyon Creek and critical Laguna Canyon wildlife
138. 40:38corridors? What role do you suggest the city play, if any, in protecting them? Edward, I be historically the city and all the 501c3 and 501c4s played a critical role in getting the uh Irvine company to give the canyon to the
139. 40:59city of Laguna Beach. I was around when that happened. And uh we have OC Parks that was that was present at the signing of it as well in 2001. And so we have all these organizations. Some uh take care of Crystal Cove. But any event, there's a lot of educational
140. 41:20501c3s that that educate the public, they educate the community, they educate the visitors. Um, and so I believe there's enough energy that is and education going on to protect our nature preserves. We we really need
141. 41:44to focus on um allowing the canyon to stay it the way it is and for our visitors as well as to respect all of our nature preserves and and I believe all of these these uh 501c3s and there's a reason why they're all set up because it was all to
142. 42:07educate the public and to you know get the Irvine somebody give us the canyon and there was a deal cut between Ray Davis and Thank you. So um uh next will be Joy and just to um just to repeat the question what do you
143. 42:27know about Laguna Canyon Creek and about critical wildlife corridors in the canyon and what role do you suggest that the city play if any in protecting them? So Joy, our open space is what makes this place so beautiful. And this role the city
144. 42:44needs to play is to respect and honor our environmental rules, our planning environmental rules. In fact, I was a led a group uh Laguna Beach Coalition for Environmental Protection and we sued the city because they have been ignoring SEAL. The city has been ignoring their
145. 43:01environmental rules and and dismissing it for more building. We're carving into our hillsides. We're destroying water courses. And we we've basically say everything is sequa exempt when it's clearly not. So, it's a really critical um corridor for the animals, for the
146. 43:20wildlife. So are all the canyons in South Laguna and and in the canyon. And if we continue to ignore SQA, we continue to ignore our environmental rules, that will be diminished. So the role we should play is to honor and respect these environmental rules
147. 43:37because without it uh once this environment's gone, it's also the canyon plays a key part to the ocean and once the ocean gets polluted then nobody's even going to want to live here. So we've got to respect the open space. we should uh ma mandate that we get these
148. 43:54open space easements and um certificates um recorded which a lot of them have not been and we need to encourage more of it to um happen not just in the canyon but elsewhere in the city. Thank you. Okay. So, um, again, we're looking for
149. 44:16what role would the city play and also what do you know about Laguna Canyon Creek and critical wildlife corridors. So, um, and next is Karen. Okay. I I was prepared for this question, so thank you for asking [laughter] it. Um I think um this is a
150. 44:40really important question and that we need to balance and um recognize that our safety and habitat protection must be designed together. Um hillsides and water courses are our safety infrastructure. um
151. 45:05our wild our slope stability are connected systems. They're not oneoff obstacles for canyon for the canyon area. I would want to see specific information on access, grading, drainage, and emergency
152. 45:23responses. I believe the water courses and habitat areas need better mapping in our policy documents. um that the open space element and the safety element need to work together to balance these um our our open space is also open space and conservation to
153. 45:44balance these two priorities. I would align the hillside and wildlife uh wildfire standards and require the city to explain the least destructive feasible approach. We all live downstream. Decisions uphill can affect neighbors, roads, water quality,
154. 46:04beaches, and the ocean. The city needs to measure the cumulative effects rather than waiting. Peggy, Penny, you're muted. Uh, thank you for telling me that. I appreciate that. Um, okay. So then, uh, Laura, and again, our question is,
155. 46:39what do you know about Laguna Canyon Creek and about Laguna Canyon wildlife corridors, and what role do you suggest the city play, if any, in protecting them? That is the question that we are attempting to answer. Okay, I'm going to try and answer your question and I would
156. 46:55have to admit I I don't think I know enough about the topics. So, I would um enjoy very much learning about them. I love the idea of having studies to know where they are, what they are. It does sound like a a public safety issue, especially the creeks. Um it's it also
157. 47:17sounds in the case of a wildlife corridor like there would be opportunities for maybe something like public private partnerships. So perhaps the city could a do some mapping b maybe put up or put together some vehicles that would facilitate things like public
158. 47:38private partnerships to protect um key areas like a wildlife corridor. Thank you. Thank you. So, and next is Mark. Yes. Thank you, Penny. Yes, the city uh should and does play a role in the uh
159. 47:59both mentioned the canyon and the uh more the the creek than the uh wildlife corridor. But with that said, we have uh it is the creek is a mapped water course. This council has already uh committed to updating its water course maps will that will be a part of the
160. 48:17update of the general plan and that that part of the general plan is the open space and conservation element. Parts of the uh channel are channelized as we know uh part of them are partially channelized and part of the channel the creek is non-chanalized and those areas
161. 48:34do support habitat which is very important. We are currently collecting data for our wildlife corridors in partnership with Laguna College of Art Design as a result of the uh negotiation that happened with ELCAD and some of the other environmental groups. So, I think
162. 48:53that we're, you know, we're the whole idea behind the stewardship platform is to really um help us address and and make sure that we align all of these different um uh you know, all of our different environmental uh uh designations along when as we implement
163. 49:14policy and ordinance changes and so nothing gets left left behind. So, it allows us to continually measure as we go our as we work our way through the updating of those documents that nothing is being left behind and and I feel like we've done that as I mentioned.
164. 49:31I appreciate your response. So, um Okay. Um and and I I apologize that I'm saying thank you and speaking over some of you except when I'm muted and then I didn't speak over you promptly. Um so, um but we you're doing a good job of staying on time. I just want to make sure that we
165. 49:48keep on doing that. So, um, Nick, you are up. Do you want me to repeat the question? Sure. Okay. So, please describe what you know about Laguna Canyon Creek and about critical Laguna Canyon wildlife
166. 50:00corridors. What role do you suggest that the city play if any in protecting them? Yeah, it's a great question. I think the city definitely, like the mayor said, appears to actively play a role, and it should. Um, you know, we want to avoid fragmentation throughout uh the Laguna
167. 50:16Canyon Creek and the hillsides. you know, it's become a lot more popular of an area when uh with people when it whether it's mountain biking, hiking, you know, the growth of social media, and we need to be very aware of that impact on the wildlife and the
168. 50:30environment as a whole. And so if that's additional education, working with partners, 501c3s, to make sure that our community is aware of the different animals that are out, whether during the day or late at night, and making sure that we're not having those incidences
169. 50:46of whether it's deers, foxes, um, and and rattlesnakes as we've had that issue over the past couple summers. uh and whether it's leveraging technology or making sure there's no fencing, cutting uh different routes off, and I believe the mayor said like doing a a whole uh
170. 51:02check on on the entire um animals that are in our in our hillsides. Um and I'd say lastly, uh if it if it includes testing the creek for clean water, I think that's really important. You know, we don't control a lot. We control some of the water about, you know, three,
171. 51:19four miles worth of the creek, but then the rest comes from upstream from from the other inland uh communities. And so we need to make sure that our water is clean and safe as it eventually dumps into uh Main Beach or as I learned recently, some of it gets siphoned off
172. 51:34and then sent over to Alisa. Thank you. Okay, so um thank you Nick Sue. Yeah, thank you. Um, so we have an opportunity to extend our wildlife corridor into Irvine if that's in the area where they're working on the great
173. 51:53park and I've talked to some people that work in, you know, that volunteer on the green belt and that that's a real possibility in the future that we can get a wildlife corridor through these heavily developed areas which allows us to get the animals across freeways uh
174. 52:06safely. Um, we are in the process I think Mark mentioned that we're mapping the blue line stream. That's very important for us because you don't want to if you're doing any development out in the canyon. We don't do a lot of development in the
175. 52:19canyon, but if we do, we want to make sure that we're cognizant of the boundary of the blue line stream. And so, we'll have that done. That's been an ongoing request. People have been wanting that for a long time, and we're finally working on it, which I'm happy
176. 52:29about. Um, we do need to follow we do need to follow our open space and conservation element. That's our guide, and we should be following that wherever possible. And then we we did some really good work in 2022 and 2023 where we kind of fixed the channel so that you know
177. 52:45we're not going to have as much flooding going forward. We also fixed it all the way under Beach Street where that'll help us a lot in the town where we'll have when we get a lot of rain, we'll have less chance of flooding and I think that's just overall healthier for the um
178. 52:57for the canyon in general. Um, I served on the board of Laguna Canyon Foundation for like six years and I see all the work that they're doing to take care of the trails, especially along the the streams there and I think that's exemplary. They're also doing a lot of
179. 53:12native habitat restoration there. Um, all really good work by the uh Laguna Canyon Foundation. Thank you. So, um, Alex. Yeah. So I think Penny as your slide indicated it's e ecologically
180. 53:30significant and that's determined by the state of California. So so that's relevant but also anecdotally I've talked to so many people you know I grew up in South Laguna and the creeks here were part of my childhood growing up and I've talked to kids who grew up in the
181. 53:43canyon who have similar experiences. So it's important from that perspective. I totally agree with everyone who made comments about upstream working with our neighboring water districts and cities on ways that we can have cleaner water go through the creek. One of the things
182. 53:57that um we worked on but failed at was getting the county to to add Aliso Creek to the trial program for no glyphosate. Um we're hoping that with changes in the board of supervisors and after this next election we could have three votes to get that for Aliso Creek but also for
183. 54:13the whole county which would include um the Laguna Canyon Creek. So I think that's an really important step is just to look at more natural approaches that we can have to um um you know where possible in in addition I think an important thing in dealing with the
184. 54:29creeks but also just dealing with the canyon in general is to ensure that all the relevant stakeholders have a seat at the table. I give a lot of credit to Mayor Orgill and and also you Penny in working on the the Elcad um project which is a great project from the
185. 54:44quilter family. um the student center. I think that was great that all the all the stakeholders came to the table, came up with a win-win solution where um you know people came away being being a part of the process and over the next four years I would continue to ensure that
186. 54:58all stakeholders are part of the process. Thank you. So um and seems endless when you have to wait, huh? Uh Ashley, do you want me to repeat the question? No. Okay. Um you are muted. Sorry. Yeah. No, I'm okay.
187. 55:19Yeah, I mean both um both are hugely important to write the ecological system of the canyon and for wildlife and the city plays um a very pivotal role in protecting and restoring that. And I think that um when we look at any development in the canyon or um city-
188. 55:42owned properties or the connect and protect that the wild wildlife should be thought about in the beginning just as much as we think about like evacuation and transportation and um wildfire. So to me, you know, the city's continued role is
189. 55:59working with the appropriate agencies and conservation organizations um and as Alex said, you know, bringing everyone to the table that when we, you know, have any plans or want to design anything for the wildlife that um it's not just being done in city hall and
190. 56:14that we we include everyone to make sure that we're doing what's right for the canyon and for the wildlife. Thank you. Okay. Um so thank you very much everybody. Um I I [clears throat] just I'm going to comment on just a couple of
191. 56:28things that are not that this is not a uh you know corrections or anything but um I did not say um and I guess because it's so present in mind for me but one of the major the major recognized wildlife corridor at Big Bend um actually
192. 56:46goes across city property. So the city does own that that wildlife corridor. Um wildlife almost certainly crosses in other locations um including um up by Laguna Canyon Foundation headquarters, but again that is also city-owned property. And I think the part of the
193. 57:05reason for that is that the city has deliberately kept those wild. Um and so you know I mean naturally wildlife will come from the open space at Aliso and Woods Canyon Wilderness Park down and across into Laguna Coast Wilderness Park where they can and where they can is
194. 57:23where it has not been developed. So um anyway I could say lots more about that but it is your forum not mine. So um I I won't um on that. Oh, I would als I would say so that um the state ecologist Janna Engel has made very clear that the our creeks including Laguna Canyon
195. 57:44Creek, actually I pulled it up, so I'm just going to read this. Um in addition to being a major watershed creek, Laguna Canyon Creek is an important wildlife corridor that links the upper canyon and hills to the lower canyon and terrestrial marine interface. Many
196. 57:58species of birds, mammals, reptiles, and amphibians travel along creek and stream corridors to forage, migrate, etc. The riparian habitat alongside creeks and streams is a critical component of wildlife corridors. Um, so there is more, but I I won't read all of that. So
197. 58:14again um those are significant and it will be interesting to see what we uh what is what what happens with the update the open space and conservation element and what we find out you know what what gets mapped and so on. Okay so um on our next
198. 58:32round we are going to be starting with Joy. Um, by the way, if you are not muted, um, please do mute in between questions if you can. Some of the burbling may actually be coming from my sound system. I don't know. Um, but if you can mute in
199. 58:50between, um, when you're not speaking. Okay. So, okay. So um here is our next question and it is the Laguna Canyon annexation area specific plan requires all development in the area to be smallcale and rural quote unquote but the definition presented in the Laguna
200. 59:09Canyon planning study has not yet been adopted by the city. How do you define smallcale and rural and what limits if any should that definition impose on new construction? Joy? Yeah, thanks. on small scale to me and it's really interesting when you look at
201. 59:27what Laguna started out almost 100 years ago. We were just about a,00 to,200 average square foot cottages and now we've grown um exponentially to these big mc mansions. So small and real to me means uh one one level a smaller scale meaning about a,000 to,400 square foot
202. 59:49home with plenty of setbacks. I think what we have to do is look at the parcel and then defined what would be con um confirmed as small but we can look at it from a setback from the front side and backyard setbacks to the height and rural means um we don't have a lot of
203. 1:00:10duplexes triplexes and density if we want to meet that rule um uh definition. So, thank goodness the Canyon has kept that beautiful boutique brand of being rural and low profile. Hope to see it continue that way and um would celebrate it.
204. 1:00:34I think you're still muted. Um Penny, there you go. There you go. [clears throat] Um okay, so um next is Karen. Do you want to repeat the question? Is that a yes? Okay. Um, the Laguna Canyon annexation area specific plan
205. 1:00:53requires all development in the area to be smallcale and rural, but the definition presented in the Laguna Canyon planning study has not yet been adopted by the city. How do you define smallcale and rural? And what limits, if any, should that definition impose on
206. 1:01:09new construction? Um, so this is where I get into the weeds. Um, and uh I would I would define new construction as anything completely new and remodels and additions. um you'd have to get into the major remodel
207. 1:01:36versus minor remodel. So that that sets the stage. Smallcale and rural to me I I look at uh cottage design. Um there are u several examples of this in Washington state and in the city of Katad. And what that means is a very efficient layout. um that sometimes can have a second
208. 1:02:03story but most of the time does not. Um it's a very livable um but also it's neighborhood comp neighborhood friendly um smallcale and rural does not in Laguna Beach does not mean um rural in
209. 1:02:28Nebraska. um rural in Laguna Beach has a separate would need to have a separate definition and um bringing our our planning and and general plan um our zoning code and our general plan into comp into compliance by having it neighborhood compatible is
210. 1:02:49what I would suggest. Okay, thank you. So, um, Laura, definitions of smallcale and rural and limits that that might impose. Well, I would think when I when you say that the two components, [clears throat] they're smallcale and rural. I think
211. 1:03:09single family, um, lots of landscape, um, lots of open space, no commercial, um, just an open feel, and neighborhood neighborhoods that, uh, emphasize parks and, uh, perhaps the the feel of the canyon. Thank you.
212. 1:03:34Thank you, Mark. And if I'm I'm not going to reread the question every time unless you ask me to. So if you want me to reread, I'm happy to. But otherwise, rural and small scale and limits that it might impose
213. 1:03:48in the area in the annexation area or in the whole canyon. Um it applies legally in the annexation area, but um certainly the rest of the canyon participates in that character too. Yes.
214. 1:04:02So I I think that I think that the uh definition of rural number one you mentioned that the it has not been adopted by the city. I think that we should uh give the idea of rural more definition and I think that that should be uh that discussion be opened up. you
215. 1:04:19know, we recently are looking at um uh providing visual uh examples to our architects uh when they start on a specific neighborhood to give them some ideas, some general ideas. So, I think that starting with that would be a very good idea and it has shown success in
216. 1:04:37other cities. Uh I think that the the canyon there are plenty of areas that uh allow for more than one use. Definitely. If you think of the the woodsided barn-l like building that's out there that has, I believe, four artist units in it, uh very barn-like building, I think is an
217. 1:04:55appropriate structure. There's another neighborhood around Big Bend that's a a collection of small cottages that allows many of our local residents to afford to be in Laguna. If you think of areas like um Fairywood Lane, for instance, I would love to see some land uh utilized in
218. 1:05:14that fashion. very quaint, charming idea where the density is spread out. It doesn't go up, but it's spread out. Uh, but I I think we could get through some of these decisions. Thank you. Yeah, I know a minute 30 is not long. Um
219. 1:05:31so um I did just get um a message um thank you for that that some of the attendees are saying that they cannot see the um uh the the speakers they so um I um I don't really have well the only thing that I can really suggest about that for
220. 1:05:54attendees is that you um change your view usually in the upper right of your screen, you can change whether you've got a gallery view, a speaker view, and it that it may be that that's what's affecting what you can or cannot see. So, um, yeah. Okay,
221. 1:06:17very good. [laughter] Apparently, we are now doing better. Um, so yeah, I didn't change anything. So I'm just going to assume that the gods of democracy are like your forum shall go forward. Um, and yeah. Okay. So um, thank you Mark. So uh, Nick,
222. 1:06:39small scale and rural, what limits might that impose? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean when I think of small scale enroll um like uh like Joy said I think cottage you know one level uh setbacks I think it's important to know that like no place is
223. 1:06:55the same um I think it's development that fits the canyon um whe you know neighborhood compatibility is what comes to mind whether it's the canyon or anywhere else in in Laguna um low profile you know we want to avoid overdeveloping certain uh intersections
224. 1:07:11off of Laguna Canyon Road that are going to impact uh traffic movement. Um, you know, at least for me, the last thing that we would want is to overdevelop an area. And then now we're looking at, you know, street lights, uh, which are going to impact traffic and and congest
225. 1:07:26traffic even more. Um, we need to preserve the open space and the natural character, uh, of the canyon. Thank you. and Sue. Yeah. So, I think the annexation plan area is like I don't know like 900
226. 1:07:44acres. So, it's not, you know, it's not the whole canyon. And, you know, I think maybe limiting looking at part individual parcels and maybe having less lot coverage than we we normally have in some of the other parts of the city to make more more space around every home.
227. 1:08:00And because I I agree with um what Mark was saying about Fairy Fairywood Lane that that's a very good example. Now actually if you look at the you know even the Sarah Thirstston specific plan that they outline very clearly what's allowed and what's not allowed. Um so I
228. 1:08:15think maybe we we put together a design document that gives examples for people who want to build what would be acceptable because people can't you know if they buy a buy a property there they can't necessarily envision you know what they should know upfront what they could
229. 1:08:28can and can't do without having it just be a bunch of words. We should give them some, you know, visual examples to look at and other maybe some other places in the canyon that are good examples. Thank you, Sue. Um, okay. And
230. 1:08:50Alex, yeah, thanks for the question, Penny. For me, the the rural aspect of the canyon is that when you're coming in, when you're driving, whether you're driving out of Laguna Beach or into Laguna Beach at the north side, with
231. 1:09:03the exception of Elcad, is pristine open space. I think that really adds to the magic of Laguna Beach where it's almost like a movie that you're you're driving into. And that's that's what makes Laguna Beach so unique and it's what makes the canyon really unique. To to
232. 1:09:17answer the specific point of your question, I think we have conflicts with our the M1A and the M1B. Um, and I always get confused between which one is the outer. Is it M1B or M1A? M1B is the outer. M1B. So M1B, for example, you have a 36
233. 1:09:33ft height limit there, which is not necessarily small scale. So I think it to to answer the the question about the planning study. I think the planning study identified that we have inconsistencies between what the annexation plan
234. 1:09:47promised the residents of the canyon as part of coming in from from the county to the city of Laguna Beach when that annexation took place. That's not necessarily reflected in our zoning documents. So, as part of our comprehensive zoning code update, I
235. 1:09:59think we can look at this, but particularly the M1B zone and look at the height limits there, look at the lot coverage standards um to make sure that we really are reflecting that smallcale nature. Um and then of course the rule part is by preserving our open space
236. 1:10:14that exists um on the right side. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. So Ashley, yeah. Yeah. So small scale and rural means to
237. 1:10:29me um you know keeping the character, the vibrancy of the canyon, the look of the canyon and the open space. Um I I think what this question shows um and really highlights here is that it's very objective right now. Um and we really need to um we we need to make it
238. 1:10:50objective standards right now. And I think we can see that across all the planning and design um that we have is that things it's it just needs to be very clear. And I know that there is um an update that's supposed to be happening. I think we need to prioritize
239. 1:11:05that for everyone. Like we can't have any new construction until that it's very clear um what the guidelines need to be for any um development in the canyon. And then um measure any plans that come across the table um based off of off of those standards and off of
240. 1:11:23facts such as you know the height, evacuation, traffic, parking, etc. So we we first need to stop making this very subjective and just very very Oh, sorry. My bad. Thank you. Okay. Um, and uh, Edward, I think, uh, the city has enough
241. 1:11:48examples of small residents, uh,,000 square feet, 1,200 square feet. Uh I think we we have enough examples what could be built and that the clarification obviously we have to address as Alex said the M1B and M1A sounds like no one's really spent any
242. 1:12:13time uh just organizing themselves in addressing the scale and scope of uh character of houses that fit in the canyon or the left and the right. And so, uh, I just believe I'm not sure why this has not been addressed, but, um, we do have
243. 1:12:39enough examples around the city of houses, uh, you know, uh, like on Park and Fairwood Lane, etc. all over that could be helpful when final final uh zoning or the write up is completed on this. Thank you.
244. 1:13:02Okay, so um next question. Karen's going to be our first uh up first on this one. So um Laguna is a small city with voluminous and sometimes contradictory codes and a passionate and I initially wrote
245. 1:13:22knowledgeable population which I think is true but maybe we should say sometimes knowledgeable right because sometimes people are passionate and knowledgeable sometimes they're just passionate. Um so what should we [laughter] do to help staff thrive
246. 1:13:35especially in the community development department in that challenging kind of environment or do they even need help? So, we'll begin with Karen. I love that question, Penny. Um, I do think the community development department does need help and uh I I
247. 1:13:54believe one of the there's two things. Number one, we need better recordkeeping and um staff does not have immediate access to previous approvals. the the recordkeeping is um based on 1969 to 1992 and um so that's number one better
248. 1:14:20recordkeeping and number two um I think once we have um some long range planners meaning we only have current planners right now we don't have any long range planners we need long range planning and those are planners that are going to
249. 1:14:39look at the state laws and how those state laws are impacting our current um our current policies. Um and first and foremost, as I've said many times, we need to update our general plan and it needs to be um both vertically and horizontally consistent. And that means
250. 1:14:58it needs to work with our LCP. It needs to work with the specific plans and um that would be the um um vertical consistency and then the horizontal consistency inside the the general plan when we're doing our safety element. We should also be updating our open space
251. 1:15:20and conservation element. Thank you. Okay. So, um, next is Laura. Thank you, Penny. Um, I would, um, encourage, um, I would like to encourage the staff to
252. 1:15:41attend things like customer service training, um, leadership training, provide them with a path, uh, for growth and development. Um, of course, our uh guidelines and ordinances need to be as clear as possible. Um, and and if it if it's at all possible, have have a
253. 1:16:04consistent um consistent training methodology for them. Um, also perhaps a a review process so that there's a um uh a uh planned uh guide for them and a planned place for them to
254. 1:16:28go with with questions and concerns uh related to specific projects. Thank you. Thank you. Mark, do you want to repeat question? Yes. Yes. Okay. So, Laguna is a small city with voluminous and sometimes contradictory
255. 1:16:46codes and a passionate and knowledgeable population. What should we do to help staff thrive especially in the community development department or do they even need help? Uh, thank you for this question. Yes. Uh, they they need
256. 1:17:02us to do what we have been doing and as you know we're going through a comprehensive code update. We're getting ready to start the general plan LCP uh uh update and the keep in mind the general plan is eight elements and all of the safety element open space compres
257. 1:17:19open space and conservation element all the elements housing element transportation element they'll everything will get updated. So those plans, as you mentioned, aren't always in alignment. That document should be very easily referenced for for our uh
258. 1:17:35employees. And right now, it's our Bible and it's what we're supposed to follow. And I think and then there's some discrepancies between the code uh our ordinances and and the general plan. And I think that that definitely needs work. That's why we're tackling it. As you
259. 1:17:50know, we've you know, there's a lot of things a lot of our departments we talked about recordkeeping. Yes. Our departments have fallen behind over the years. We are trying to get them all caught up right now. Technology is going to play a huge part in that. We're
260. 1:18:02embracing that uh wholeheartedly at this time. And I think all of these things will help us uh help the employees better implement uh what you know our our general plan essentially. Thank you. And Nick,
261. 1:18:22it's a great question. And I think the first thing I would do and just like approach it like when uh when running a small business is you want to talk to both sides. So we're talking with the community to see what problems that they're having. How are they feeling
262. 1:18:34about working with the planning department? And then talking with the planning department. What are they going through? what are their what's their feedback from the residents and then just trying to find a middle ground there because some feedback that I've
263. 1:18:45heard from from residents is obviously that you know the code isn't clear and we're having those issues and people just want to know what's possible what's not possible and we need to clear that up and I and I know that the planners are are constantly confused about that
264. 1:19:00and there's all these discrepancies so you know I know that uh the city council has looked at using AI to leverage that to try to clear up the code when it comes to the plan check, but if the code isn't cleared up and our general plan isn't updated, then that's going to
265. 1:19:14struggle for them to actually have to, you know, recheck the uh when it comes with the plans. Um, I would, you know, look at customer service when it comes to, you know, feedback what I've heard where people feel like they're it's the DMV, the hours have shrunk. And so I
266. 1:19:30think finding that balance of where the staff can be as productive as possible and the residents can be happy with being able to go down whether it's an online booking system for appointments or um with some walk-ins. I think it just depends on where both sides are are
267. 1:19:46finding their issues and what's working well and trying to find a good compromise. Thank you Sue. Thank you. Yeah, I think um so the the community development job is is a hard
268. 1:20:00job because it's this is a very complicated city um to build in and for a variety of reasons. One is some all of our a lot of our land use um documents are in conflict with each other. Um I think you know they're they're learning to work with the inefficiencies but
269. 1:20:15we're fixing all that through our comprehensive code update as Mark mentioned which will be a huge help. If you look at the kind of the stats and how well they're doing in terms of processing and turnaround times, now they're doing much better. Um, but I
270. 1:20:29think it will help us once we get the kind of these code updates changed. We'll have a better chance in recruiting, too, because Laguna is a very hard place to work. It's hard to get here and the hours are the hours are long because the hard the work itself is
271. 1:20:40hard. The workload's hard. But we're going to be putting Cross Beam in. Crossbean's going to look at. We load all of our code in there and Crossbean will look at um the discrepancies and tell the planner rather than spending eight hours going through these 300, you
272. 1:20:52know, checkpoint thing that they have to go through, which is ridiculous. Um it indicates where there's an error. So, um they're it's going to be a big crowdleaser for our employees is they're going to not have to spend so much time and our
273. 1:21:07customers are going to get a very quick turnaround and it'll be accurate. So I think introducing more technology, cleaning up our code and you know just staying on track with our stats and how well we're doing processing through um the city uh should be instructive on in
274. 1:21:22terms of how we're doing and we we do meet with the architects and they have architect meetings, the planners meet with the architects. So I think they that's helped a little bit fine-tuning. Thank you Alex.
275. 1:21:36Thanks Penny. One of the the jobs that you don't expect but really become a big part of your day-to-day as a council member is essentially air traffic controller where all day I'm fielding emails and calls from residents and helping them connect with the
276. 1:21:49appropriate planner get the information that they're trying to get and um oft and sometimes it's actually gotten better over the the four years I've been on council dealing with delays or where there's a backlog um with an application just directing them to the right person.
277. 1:22:02One of the things I also like to do as a council member is shadow different departments and I spend a day as a planner and let me tell you I we all it is a very hard job as Sue indicated there are 300 things on the checklist they have to go through and I think that
278. 1:22:15the last question really effectively demonstrated the conundrum that we have in our code where you have on one side a document that says that it needs to be small scale and rural and on the other side in the M1B zone for example you have a 36 ft height limit. How do you
279. 1:22:30reconcile those two things? And that's really the job of the council is to create consistency. And I think we can do that through two main ways. Number one, um, advanced planning. I totally agree with Karen on that point. We've been advocating for that, dealing with
280. 1:22:44the constraints of the budget, but I think that we're going to be able to have an advanced planner and ideally an advanced planning division so we can be not outsourcing that to consultants, but having our staff working on updating these codes, having consistency, because
281. 1:22:57at the end of the day, I think we have to have hard conversations on the front end with these policy documents and create really clear direction for everyone in the city. That helps applicants and it helps the staff and that's really how we can um keep the
282. 1:23:09unique character of Lagoon. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Ashley. Yeah. Um, so I I did turn around um for businesses for a good portion of my career. Um, where you have to go in and and help fix broken systems. Um, and the
283. 1:23:31very first thing that you do is you go and talk to the people who actually have to who are doing it and talk to the team and understand what is broken for them. um to not feel successful in their job um because you can't hold you can't then hold people accountable um without
284. 1:23:47giving them the proper tools to do the job and have clear performance measures. So um the very first thing is um fix the tools right we want people to thrive in a good system not a bad system and as everyone's mentioned here and per the question is um a very convoluted broken
285. 1:24:04code base um and subjective standards that needs to be fixed um you know it's a big problem that we have in the city so that's the most important thing make it very clear give them the proper tools to be able to do the job um better training better internal um
286. 1:24:22communication because that's something that I've gone through when um you know building my own restaurant here in Laguna is that a lot of the different departments um don't really have clear communication and talk in knowing what's going on and talking with each other um
287. 1:24:36and then once all that is done is then give clear performance um performance measurements for them and that's on the customer service um that's on the turnaround times um and improving the entire process and the training versus adding in more people.
288. 1:24:52Thank you. Okay. And Edward, yeah, I I've been here long enough where I've done enough construction projects in the city myself. uh some of them I've managed where I would go into the
289. 1:25:17building department and get things approved etc. So I think the issue is over the years there there's been so much turnover and experience lo took a toll on the city building department and code department where
290. 1:25:37constantly uh hiring people training people. So now uh we've now I think Alex has spent enough time to try to put everything uh to make it all more automated, more computer so that whoever does get hired, it's a little easier to interact with uh people coming in off
291. 1:26:01the street, residents or or general contract to getting getting things through the mill and getting approved. So we are going forward but again um every time we lose someone there's some training that goes on. So hopefully we we we keep those procedures and um and
292. 1:26:23we are productive going forward. I think Alex started this but before Alex started it things did run smoothly but we had so much turnover. go. Okay. And uh I'm sure and this time now we're going to Joy. And again, thank you everybody for your patience.
293. 1:26:45So Penny, you're right. We although we're a small town, we have all these variety of ecosystems, different neighborhoods with different plans with different um requirements. And so one of the first things I do, I think that puts pressure and stress on our planning
294. 1:27:00staff. The first thing I would do is I would separate our staff into individual type of projects. So for example, I would dedicate staff to just the ADUs. I dedicate staff to just some of the commercial projects. I dedicate staff to just remodels. I dedicate staff to new
295. 1:27:16builds. And I think that would allow them to then fine-tune their expertise in that area. The second thing I would do, I've been in development my entire career. And what other communities do is they have preapp meetings where the applicant before even schematic designs
296. 1:27:33come through, you talk about the project you want to do, you invite the neighborhood way before a DRB, way before you've met with the city planning department. So the the planning department comes to these preapp meetings and they hear firsthand the
297. 1:27:48concerns of the neighbors and then the staff puts the burden back on the developer or the applicant to solve those issues. I I lastly I think the burden needs to go back to the developer. I feel like the staff feels that they are compelled to support the
298. 1:28:05project and write a report that helps support it without really looking at and having all these conditions of approval. Staff report should have pros and cons of the project and let council or DRB make the decisions. Staff should not be making the decisions and putting that
299. 1:28:21burden back on the developer is what would solve a lot of the issues. Thank you very much. Okay. So, um we are um moving on. I'm just looking at my list because I'm maybe going to drop [clears throat] a question. But you got at least two more. I have three more
300. 1:28:42to ask you, but maybe you're only going to get two of them. Um, unless we're willing to go past 8:30. So, um, on this next question, we'll be starting with Laura. Um, and, um, the your question is, there are times when the roles of the governing body are in opposition to
301. 1:28:58one another. For example, residents who support you may be asking the council to vote a particular way on an issue because of how that decision impacts them in the moment. But in your role as steward, you will consider long-term implications and maybe make a different
302. 1:29:16decision. How do you work to reconcile those conflicting roles? Laura? Well, I I think what you need to do is first listen to the stakeholders. Listen to the stakeholders. Um get a a thorough understanding of the rules. look at how other cities have perhaps
303. 1:29:40um interpreted those rules and then ultimately um try and develop a solution that if if you can get an elegant solution that's a win-win that that's that's the best case but if you can't I think you need to look at what's going to be best for the
304. 1:30:01most people over a long period of time. Thank you, Mark. Okay. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. So, there are always discrepancies and
305. 1:30:24there are always going to be some uh situations where you need to work some things out. I think being familiar with, you know, our our land use documents, general plan ordinances, and even I'd go as far as saying uh vision 2030, you know, it provides very specific
306. 1:30:40guidance. However, there are gaps, right? And I think really helping the the residents understand uh some of where what those documents how we use them as guidance is important. And I think that a lot of times that does kind of reconcile the indifferences. Doesn't
307. 1:30:57always make everybody happy, but I do believe that it goes a long way. So I would say it's really working to help the the residents understand uh how we got to where we are and what role those documents play in our decision- making. Thank you,
308. 1:31:15Nick. Um so short the the your uh residents who support you are asking you to vote a particular way on an issue but when you consider the long-term implic uh implications you might make a different decision. H how do you cons how do you
309. 1:31:32reconcile those significant pressures of those different roles? Thanks Benny. I would say the the key thing for a lot of the residents when it comes to these issues, especially what's been happening recently over the past
310. 1:31:46couple years, is making sure they feel like they're part of the process, that this isn't coming up on them last minute or there wasn't proper notice, there weren't proper town halls or they felt like it was a collaborative discussion. I I understand when it's at a city
311. 1:32:01council meeting there's uh you know the structured uh you know comment period and then council get or council gets to discuss talk with the the uh people on the project and then they get to chat and then you only get three minutes. So that's why town halls are really
312. 1:32:15important and depending on where the the issue is, having communication with the residents in those neighborhoods. And I think making sure that they're part of the process is the first step. And I don't think that's been happening, especially recently over the past year.
313. 1:32:28And that's why a lot of residents feel frustrated that when these projects come up and they feel like they weren't prepared for it or they weren't notified and then they think that things are going through and then they don't see the long-term uh benefit of these
314. 1:32:41projects because they didn't have time to really process it. So I think focusing on bringing residents in early having a collaborative forum you know a lot of these town halls I've gone to all the town halls over the past year and there were only a handful where the
315. 1:32:55current city council members were attending. And so I think that's really important that they're there so they they feel like they're collaborating with the residents. Thank you, Sue.
316. 1:33:06Yeah, I think you know Mark mentioned vision 2030 and I read I've read that a couple times. You know there were like I don't know I count the signatures on that document. I think there was there was over a thousand. There's a lot of names I still recognize. So there was a
317. 1:33:17big you know community collaborative effort on that document. It's a very interesting document to read if you haven't read it. Um, you know, I think um, you know, it we're living in a very difficult time right now where we have a lot of particularly we have a lot of um,
318. 1:33:30we're having a lot of climate implications now. So, it's going to be a little bit it's a little bit harder to think, you know, very um, in a detailed fashion about what may or may not happen. I think we're starting to see some hints now, though. And, you know, I
319. 1:33:44think continuing doing what we have been doing, I don't really agree with Nick because we've had like, you know, we have council meetings. We'd had 10 listening sessions. We had nine study sessions and we have council members don't typically attend those because
320. 1:33:57those are open for the public and sometimes when council members are there it kind of taints the discussion and we don't want that. We want this this the uh public to be able to communicate with the staff or they don't really get a chance to do that when there's um in
321. 1:34:09council meetings. So, I think continuing to do that. But in terms of, you know, what we do in the future, I think we should be talking a lot more about our climate and what we need to do to address climate change because we've seen in the last, you know, month what's
322. 1:34:25happening on the coastline and we know we've had fires before. So, I think, you know, working more as a as an uh community on those issues is going to be really, really important. Thank you, Alex.
323. 1:34:42Yeah. So, one of the roles of as a city council member, and it's something that I take really seriously, is that we're there to represent all 23,000 residents. And so, we engage with residents all the time. One of the things that I really like about campaigning is that you're
324. 1:34:54going door to door and you're talking to people who might not show up at meetings because they don't have time, but they still have a voice in the city. to answer your question, Penny, about and then one of the other things I'm also really proud of is our city manager,
325. 1:35:05Dave Kif. I think that when we go back four years ago, the situation that we had in terms of how residents interacted with staff was totally different than what we have today. So, I'm really proud of the work that we've done there. We always can improve that. I'm I like um
326. 1:35:18you know, Penny, we recently had the discussion about with the the efficiency ordinance and the issues that were with the Thirsten specific the Thirstston plan and I'm really proud of the way that staff was able to work with the community and work through those issues.
327. 1:35:30So that's one example. Some of the hardest votes that I've had on council have been when you have to go against the people who've supported you because at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you support me or you vehemently oppose you. I represent you
328. 1:35:41as a council member. One particular example of that is the Louise Street ADU where you essentially had a situation where an applicant had an attorney and they were leveraging state law to build an ADU that um blocked views that were previously protected by the design
329. 1:35:56review board. We h we looked at that from every angle that we could to protect the community and ultimately had to vote against what was in the interest of the residents but be of those specific residents because ultimately the ADU would have been approved. It was
330. 1:36:10a hard decision but I think it's always important to explain why we're making the decisions we're doing especially in the context of state laws. Thank you, Ashley. Yeah. So, um you know, all residents deserve to be heard and it's the
331. 1:36:28responsibility of an elected official to um make sure that everyone feels listened and heard and understood and but also communicate the logic behind decisions. and a a resident should never have to question the reasoning behind something. They shouldn't be surprised
332. 1:36:47by that. Um so it is the job of an elected official to make sure that um when a decision is made that might not be something that everyone agrees upon is that the trade-offs are explained um you know the the cost the impact um any legal behind that or any data behind
333. 1:37:06that um and make sure that's fully explained. And you know to Nick's point um that's you know in talking with residents that's definitely been something that's been lacking in the last little bit is that there hasn't been enough transparency and enough
334. 1:37:20explanation to the residents by city hall. Thank you Edward. conflict between roles, advocacy for your supporters or long-term value. The the fun part about campaigning, you
335. 1:37:41get to talk to business owners, residents, residents have their property, they pay their property taxes, business people are have businesses they've invested their life savings in. And so when you're campaigning, you get around to
336. 1:37:58get to talk to people and to hear their reaction and my vibe that I get from uh talking to the business owners downtown. Sadly, uh they believe that city council is not listening to them and that the present city council
337. 1:38:16does not address their needs, does not listen to them. And shockingly, um, they pretty hammered the chamber for not providing support, uh, help to them that they feel that that's why they're there. So, getting around and campaigning, you
338. 1:38:36get to talk to people and and get a sense. So, as a public board member of a number of different state boards, you know, you you have a fiduciary responsibility to listen to your to listen to listen to your residents, listen to your business owners, and
339. 1:38:55there's a balance and you have to strike a balance. So, you have to look at short-term, long-term, what's in the future. As I mentioned earlier, I dramatically feel there are new new tools that are going to Oops. Okay. I don't have a clock.
340. 1:39:13Yeah. Um, you can see the clock um in uh um when I I'll start it and then restart it. It is running in my square and it's running in the upper right hand side of the of the screen and we did discuss that at the beginning of the session so that you can tell how much time you have
341. 1:39:28and you can watch it. So, um if you can't do that then I suggest that you maybe pull up a clock app on your phone. Um or you can just listen to me say thank you. But it's probably more elegant if you're looking at the time. So, um, Joy,
342. 1:39:44yeah, sorry, I think my internet's overheating. That's why I'm having internet problems. But, um, first I want to say I I agree, Penny. I think there are conflicts and I have a lot of respect and appreciation for our city council, our current city council, our
343. 1:39:59incumbents, because the role is not easy and they're being forced to meet with conflict, basically quite a bit of conflict from the state. I mean the state is mandating these rules that don't really come in um compliance with what our brand is or our identity is and
344. 1:40:17so it does make it very difficult for our council to make the right decision. And I also think that there's so much pressure on the council from you know developers that say you know if you don't approve this project then I'm going to sue you and I'm going to you
345. 1:40:32know cost you a lot of money. And so yeah I I have a lot of respect. I think all of our council members spend a lot of time I believe in their heart and in their heads they're they uh want to do and and hope to do the right decisions. I may not always agree with them but it
346. 1:40:50it is an inherent conflict when you've got a small town with all this diversity and the state breathing down your neck. You've got to balance it with the coastal commission. You got to balance it with all of our neighbors with all the um new population coming around us.
347. 1:41:05So, how do we deal with that? I kind of think we need to explain our why. Why we come up with some of these decisions, why we need to do this, and maybe explaining our why might help resolve some of the conflict. And Karen,
348. 1:41:24hi. Um, so I go back to I I have a just we keep talking. I hear the incumbents talking about the fact that they're doing a code update and the code update does not include a comprehensive general plan update. It's the the contract. So
349. 1:41:47maybe they can correct me. I'm okay with that. But what I saw is that the contract is only for the zoning code. They're not allowed to approve the zoning code if it's not in um if it's not working and in alignment with the
350. 1:42:04general plan. But they chose to first go for the zoning code update. So I I really think it's important that we don't put the cart before the horse. And when we have our general plan, which is our our guiding vision, um it's a lot easier for a council member to point to
351. 1:42:24the vision and use that to um justify their decisions whether it is for a supporter or a neighbor. Um, I also think that having these consistent rules both for the applicant and for the neighbors is is going to take away much of the acrimony that we
352. 1:42:48have in our community. We don't have consistent rules. We don't have consistent documents at our front counter. Our front counter documents don't match what we have on our website. Thank you. I do get that it is frustrating, but I
353. 1:43:08appreciate all of you doing your level best to either bring it in or graciously accept my my compelling and that timer is really small on my machine. So, yeah, I hear you. Um, honestly, I could tell
354. 1:43:25you lengthy, really boring stories about our multiple misadventures with finding the right timer, but suffice it to say that it seems to be the best of the available options. So, um, when we did uh, practice versions of this, um, my team did tell me that they can see the
355. 1:43:43clock in the, um, upper right, so that might be worth looking at. I don't know. But anyway, um, so the timer running in the upper right rather. Okay. So, um, nonetheless, right, having to terminate what you're saying. Aggravating, but a good skill to
356. 1:44:04have. So, we are on to our um [clears throat] either final or semiinal question depending on how long we take to answer it. So, um I might do our last one if we feel like doing very brief answers to it. But, so, um here's the question, and this time we will be
357. 1:44:21starting with Mark. Is how much do you think the open space is worth? Are you willing to designate $300,000 per year for the open space fund? What criteria would you use in determining how to spend the funds? Mark, you're muted.
358. 1:44:46Thank you, Joy, for recognizing uh some of the challenges that we have. And I'm going to use part of my uh 1 minute and 30 seconds to respond to Karen regarding the uh comprehensive code update. We are doing it in phases. Some of it uh does rep will require uh it to be a part of
359. 1:45:02the general plan update. The part that we're doing now is in reaction to the housing laws. We're trying to stay ahead of that. That is our methodology why we're doing it in the sequence that we're doing it. The open space is wildly important to me. It's wildly important
360. 1:45:16to this community. It's uh not only our identity uh for what we are inherently, it's a visual. It's it's everything to us visually, right? Uh, and also, uh, as far as our use, our everybody I know goes hiking on the trails. Uh, it it's gets used a lot. Um the $300,000 a year
361. 1:45:38I think that would I do think we could find money to uh to uh uh invest in the open space uh whether it be open space acquisition and I also think we need to uh expand our investment in uh the management of the open space and work with Laguna Canyon Foundation in making
362. 1:45:57sure that they have all the resources necessary to manage the properties the way they they need to be. And if that requires some additional studies, we've got the wild life. There's a lot of pieces to the puzzle. So, I it's important. It's uh and I think that we
363. 1:46:13should do whatever we can to take it seriously. Thank you, Nick. Yeah, I I believe uh putting money aside for a fund to help protect the open space is very important. We don't want
364. 1:46:29to uh run into situations where people are buying up property and then trying to sue the city for reasonzoning. We don't know what uh the state laws could be changing on that at any moment. Um so we need to be forward thinking, looking ahead, trying to plan ahead and have
365. 1:46:46that long-term planning on preserving our open space. But that's also why making sure that we have funds available and that we're not overspending uh than what we're taking in is really important because when these kind of great ideas come up or these situations where we
366. 1:47:01need to find funds, we want to make sure that we're able to do that. uh we don't want to be in a situation where oh we we have to you know use public money in a in a convoluted way or take money from certain buckets uh that we've seen in in the recent uh past uh to where it can
367. 1:47:18get convoluted. So we need to put money aside, keep it in a different bucket and be long-term thinking to help preserve our open space. Thank you Sue. Yeah, I think you know past um city councils and city governments have done
368. 1:47:33a really good job of acquiring open space. When you look back like at for example Ken Frank's tenure, how much open space was acquired was it's pretty amazing. And um so I think we just continue doing that. We know we do buy small parcels here and there. Sometimes
369. 1:47:48I wonder, you know, there'll be there's I live up near Arch Beach Heights on the south end, but in some of those areas there'll be, you know, a parcel that'll come up and the city will buy it or, you know, for a nominal amount of money, which I think in most cases are is good.
370. 1:48:02But but I think we also need to as a city to protect us from liability, we need to see if those parcels, you know, if we should take those on or not. There's always a balance there. Um, we did used to keep we we did keep quite a bit of money in our open space fund for
371. 1:48:17a while and I I think we used some of that to buy a parcel I don't know five or six years ago. Um, but you know, I think we can continue to do that. Put money in our open space fund. I don't see it I don't see it a problem from a budget point of view.
372. 1:48:31Okay. Thank you. So, um, and next is um, Alex. And so just your the question is how much do you think the open space is worth? Are you willing to designate 300,000 per year for the open space fund and what criteria would you use in determining
373. 1:48:47how to spend the funds? Um and if uh if any candidate wants me to reread um I'm happy to do so. I don't mean to make it easier for some and harder for others by asking the question immediately. I just don't want to ask the question nine times. I don't need [laughter] to. So um
374. 1:49:02Okay. And Alex, it's very hard to put a dollar amount on it because I think you might have to look at the property values of Laguna Beach, which are in the billions of dollars because really the reason why
375. 1:49:14people want to live here is because of the open space. I was lucky enough to grow up here and take advantage of that open space, hike on our trails, and it really is what defines Laguna Beach. It gives me really chills to think about the fact that little Laguna Beach was
376. 1:49:27able to stand up to the biggest developer in Southern California, the Irvine Company in the March in the Canyon to basically save the open space. And you look at the investment the the return on that investment in terms of what the T and they were willing to tax
377. 1:49:39themselves to do it. When you look at the return on investment of that, it it's hard to find any investment you can make in the stock market that would rival the investment Laguna Beach that our, you know, our previous leaders were able to make in protecting our open
378. 1:49:53space. The question as we approach our 100redy year anniversary is how do we double down in expanding that vision of ensuring that we are protecting our open space and expanding it. So, one, I support continually ad uh allocating the 300,000, but we really need to be
379. 1:50:08thinking in broader terms and thinking in terms of a multiplier effect. And so I really think that the land trust that we were able to do in terms of preserving artists um workspaces is a model for that where we can look to the community because we have a lot of very
380. 1:50:22generous philanthropists in our community and potentially through a public private partnership leverage that that revenue from the city for the open space but then think about how we can take advantage of the of the generous philanthropy that we have in town to
381. 1:50:36double down and ensure that that we can preserve and expand our open space. Thank you. Thank you. Ashley. Um, yeah, I mean, our open spaces is u one of the best things of Laguna Beach.
382. 1:50:51It's why a lot of us, you know, have moved here or continue to live here. Um, and it's definitely worth protecting and investing into that. I'd be open to um dedicating 300,000 a year um with my fiscal management hat on making sure that um it was allocated for
383. 1:51:13preservation and not just spent because it's an annual part of the budget. So from a criteria standpoint, I would want to make sure that um does it continue to protect wildlife and you know the habitat? Does it reduce any wildfire or erosion risk? Um are there grants or
384. 1:51:33conservation partners that would you know want to also contribute um on an annual basis? Um you know making sure there's no still risk of development. Um, and I mean I, you know, most importantly of that 300,000, what are the long-term maintenance costs of of
385. 1:51:50preservation and making sure that that's um included and make sure we have enough for that if we're going to, you know, dedicate a bucket of our budget to for preservation, making sure that we're able to maintain that on a long-term basis.
386. 1:52:01Thank you, Edward. I' I've been around for a while, so I've been around since the Ken Frank uh era. And I also understand I I don't agree with taking city dollars regarding the 300,000. And this is why as that we are
387. 1:52:28part of California. California has lots of government agencies and I'll list them all out for you, but you know, the Coastal Commission, the Coastal Conservancy, the California Housing Finance Agency, all of these different agencies [clears throat] have monies
388. 1:52:46that they can give to the city and that and obviously we all know the California Conservancy takes care of beach and all the walkways uh staircases uh to the public walkways. So, we need to focus on either getting better grant writers or lobby or replacing our
389. 1:53:08lobbyists. I don't know if we have one, but there is a lot of dollars that can be uh accessed and we do a very bad job in doing that. And one of the big the nice things about living in Laguna Beach, Laguna Beach has brilliant people, passionate people. And one of
390. 1:53:26the biggest things that happened is they marched down the canyon and all of these 501c3s, all of these re these people focused on and that's what saved the canyon. So then it became political. So Greg Davis got involved, chairman of the California
391. 1:53:43Conservancy got involved talking to the Irvine company. Okay, Joy. Sure. [laughter] Um, how much is our open space worth? It's priceless. It's just priceless. And I I live in South Laguna. I would love
392. 1:54:00to see the 300,000 start acquiring open space in South Laguna. We have a lot of our hillsides are privately owned and I would hate to see it all get developed out. When we're one of the last few coastal towns that you drive along Pacific Coast Highway and you can
393. 1:54:16actually see the green hillsides. And I just think it should be a priority. It's part of our brand. It's part of our heritage. It's it's what will keep our ocean clean and it it really improves our quality of life. Exactly what everybody said. So, uh open space, it's
394. 1:54:33priceless. Kind of like my pets. Thank you. Um [clears throat] Karen, um I would like to see our our open space element also looking at our our safety element. One thing I noticed in researching the canyon is that it's in a
395. 1:54:57seismic landslide hazard area um and that many of the homes in the rural um quaint neighborhoods are endangered from landslides. I think we really need to look at our open space in conjunction with our um public safety. Thank you.
396. 1:55:24And finally on this question, Laura, thank you. Thank you very much. Um, you know, as much as I really want to keep our budgets balanced and I'm a fiscal conservative, I absolutely love the o open space and would definitely support
397. 1:55:44a continued set aside of 300,000 a year in particular to to to pick off to cherrypick parcels that come up. Um, every so often you you do get good values. um through the places like the county assessor's office. Um and I think to the extent that we can pick off
398. 1:56:07parcels and and expand the open space and um contribute to what we all know as uh Laguna Beach and and very much a um key part of Laguna Beach. I think it's a u fantastic thing to continue. Thank you. Thank you.
399. 1:56:30Okay. Well, um, it is 8:27, so I think I will not ask you the final question. I considered maybe cruy giving you 30 seconds each on it, but honestly, that'll put us over time, too. So, um, yeah. So, um, I'm going to tell you what it is just because it'd be interesting
400. 1:56:50for people to think about it. And that is, um, and some of you have touched on this topic, too. So, some of you have kind of already talked about it. And that is this winter is supposed to be a historic El Nino. The El Nino in the winter of 97 to 98 caused flooding
401. 1:57:02throughout the town, but the canyon took the greatest hit perhaps with mudslides that killed two people. Um we haven't had anybody die in a fire, but we have had two people die in mudslides. Um injured many others and left some hope homeless. So my my my question and again
402. 1:57:18um you know we'll maybe maybe this will show up at another forum was going to be what what can the city do to help? So um okay but um we are going to move on in an effort to try to finish in basically a timely fashion. So I really want to thank all of you. Um I I think everybody
403. 1:57:36was um I think your um responsiveness and your courtesy and your communication and diversity of answers I think was very helpful. Um I hope that um our our uh attendees um and you know numbers went up and down but just for interest um we had uh 61 at one point. So um and
404. 1:57:59we will I think get some additional um participation when we uh uh load our video. So um so everybody thank you for your participation and thank you very much to our audience attendees. Um, so just to finish up, development pressure on the canyon's increasing, as is
405. 1:58:18pressure on the Wild Canyon. And with climate change, as I think Sue mentioned, um, the risk of fire, flood, and mudslides is increasing, too. Peter Douglas, um, who was the longest serving executive director of the California Coastal Commission, is famous for having
406. 1:58:33said, "The coast is never saved, it's always being saved." And I think we could say that about Laguna Canyon, too. We marched to save it in 1989. Um, and here it is, 2026, and we are continuing to save it. So, as we face the future, we will need intelligent, analytical,
407. 1:58:52knowledgeable council people who share our values and are committed to working collaboratively with their fellow council members and city staff. So, um, we hope that tonight's forum helps the audience decide which three candidates best fill those roles. Thank you very
408. 1:59:07much, everybody. Thank you, Penny. Thank you, Penny. Thank you, Penny. Bye-bye.